Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board
|[MADRASA] Is satan a Martyr?|
|08/18/01 at 04:07:53|
|Just a thought or something to think about.|
Is it true to say that satan's, ( or Iblis's), 'role' has been pre-ordained by God himself; he is the outcast.
Agreed?Good. Now, was he given the choice to choose between right and wrong? Was he given the choice to choose between bowing to Adam(a) or not bowing?
It is safe to assume that so far we are in agreement. He was given the choice.(Hence he chose not to).
Is it then, perhaps, also correct that Satan still has the choice to repent?
Is it not true that the people who listened to Satan will say, on the day of judgement, that 'He led us astray', but they will be corrected that infact it was their choice to choose evil, that it was not Satan's fault.
Are we correct in thinking that Allah(s) has the supreme knowledge, and is ALL merciful?
Is Satan a martyr?
so i ask anyone, who can perhaps elaborate on this, to please do so.
Allah (God) is not bound by "time" and knows what has happenned and what will happen. So I'm not sure what you mean by "pre-ordained".
When Allah asked the angels and company to bow to Adam they all obeyed, except Iblis who was a jinn among them. He refused out of arrogance and racism believing he was better because he was made of fire and Adam from clay. (Quran 7:12)
Iblis disobeyed (obviously he had a choice to obey) and thus was to be punished by Allah. However Iblis asked for respite, a delay from this punishment until the Day of Judgement. He was granted this by Allah and is hence known as the 'accursed' or 'the outcast' as you say until that Day. (Quran 15:36)
Iblis, henceforth head of the shaitans(satans), promised to stand in wait ready to attack the believer from before them and behind them, from their right and their left (Quran 7:17) to mislead them from the Straight Path.
On the Day of Judgement when people try to say that Iblis or shaitans made them do evil. Iblis will take one step back and say hey no way...i never made you do anything, you did it all yourself, i just suggested things to you and you followed it.
"And Satan will say when the matter is decided: "It was Allah Who gave you a promise of Truth: I too promised, but I failed in my promise to you. I had no authority over you except to call you but ye listened to me: then reproach not me, but reproach your own souls. I cannot listen to your cries, nor can ye listen to mine. I reject your former act in associating me with Allah. For
wrong-doers there must be a grievous chastisement." (Quran 14:22)
Allah also confirms:
"For over My servants no authority shalt thou have, except such as put themselves in the wrong and follow thee." (Quran 15:42)
It's interesting how (Iblis) said: "Then, by Thy Power, I will lead them all astray,-" Quran 38:82
He believed and knew Allah was his Lord but still disobeyed and it was only by Allah's Power that he was sent to earth to fulfill his "destiny" of trying to mislead mankind.
Please try to read the discussion on the 2nd or 3rd page of this discussion board that discusses this topic in detail as well.
And Allah knows best.
The Quranic verse of Allah forgiving everything but joining partners to him may also apply to Satan:but in any case, Allah knows he will always be too arrogant to repent.All Merciful doesn't mean that Allah will forgive everything-if someone said there's no god,then Allah forgave him, what kind of obesiance would that be to the sayer of that?There's a line between Merciful and obedience:Mercy is because he's all powerful:obedience is for those who submit to a higher power.Since he has knowledge of all that has and will happened,what reason is there for anything but mercy?Mercy is forsaken by humans because we believe that the people we've been merciful to may rebel against us and try to take some of our power;Allah doesn't need that.Satan is not a martyr:he was never forced to do what Allah knew that he was going to do;he did it not because of Allah's bidding,but because of his own arrogance.Thus, he is an anti-martyr:he sacrifices his future for the sake of his nafs.
assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
that poses an interesting question, which is, are we, when we commit sin, without fault because of divine will/destiny?
no, because we are given free will, which is also given to jinns. when we exercise our free will, we are given the ultimate Mercy from Allah to be forgiven if we err and are truly repentant...(i won't get into destiny/qadir, that's a whole study in & of itself).
however, i think that iblis was a special case, in that he took, for all intents & purposes (his, being arrogance), a "covenant" with Allah that if he would be allowed to try and lead mankind astray he would indeed have hell as his recompense. i think he knew & understood the consequences of his decision, in that he chose this over repenting, since as we all know, Allah is the most Merciful, oft-Forgiving.
martyrdom is a title reserved for those who have the courage, or even the desire (as there is a sahih hadith which says Allah will grant the reward of martyrdom to those who truly wish to be like martyrs, even if they die in their own bed), to die in the way of bringing Islam above anything else, including their own life.
i'm no scholar, so don't take my word on it, but i sincerely doubt that shaytaan is considered to be amongst this rank.
YUSUFALI: It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who prostrate.
(Allah) said: "What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay."
(Allah) said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."
He said: "Give me respite till the day they are raised up."
(Allah) said: "Be thou among those who have respite."
He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:
"Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."
(Allah) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all.
i think my point has been overlooked by all of the above. The issue in question is not is Satan evil? or is He the accursed? or has he been given respite till the Last Day?
These points are clear and not in question.
What is in question is that Satan is a creation and has free will, and therefore is open to repent.
If however, 'respite' means that He has already been 'judged' by the Almighty; that His punishment has merely been delayed; that His doors of mercy and forgiveness have been closed, then, and only then, can we assume that He is in a Tricky Situation no.1.
I think the answer I was hoping for was, only God knows best.
If he did not have free will, then Allah(swt)(instagfirallah!)forced him to do it, so he wouldn't be responsible for it.'has already been' is your whole problem:Allah's bigger than time;it doesn't confine him. As for the repent part,I don't know:perhaps you should try submitting your question to islam-qa.com or some other Islamic website for questions.
assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi
looking back on my original msg, it seems i didn't cite the Quranic verses after copy/pasting, which is obvious to most muslims, but may not be to any non-muslims out there....
anyways, those verses are from the Quran and only translated by yusef ali.
and yes, i agree with you in that we don't know what Allah will do with any of us, man or jinn, & He is most Merciful and oft-Forgiving. i was looking at it more from the whole "martyr" pt of view, but again, even that depends on how you define it.
Assalam alaikum wa rahmatullah to those who receive it,
There is a methodological flaw in this sequence of reasoning which leads to the question, by raybuzz.
It is slightly of concern that no one has addressed this, as it seems to suggest an acceptance of the argument-form, which is where the actual problem lies here. If one answers a question like this without pointing this out, then that itself shows a weakness in the thinking of the answerer, for to accept such syllogistic reasoning is alien to the Islamic way of thinking. That is NOT to say that the asking of the question was wrong, or that we do not address it, or that it is not answerable. Rather, that the answer lies not in rebuttals using Qur'anic evidences etc. but in pointing out the conceptual flaw in the very premise of the question. Please do not take this as an attack on anyone, or a sidestep.
The use of logical steps as applied here is not a valid form of argument-building in the Islamic paradigm.
The structuring of the sequence as "If A = B, and B = C, thus A = C" is not apt nor applicable here. Its employment is what has given rise to the question ans the misconception.
Whilst logic does have its role, it is not within the realm of theological, or jurisprundential issues (to name but two).
If anythinfg remains unclear, feel free to get back to me, and insha'Allah I will endeavour to clarify.
Only the mistakes have been mine, and for them I seek the forgiveness of Allah (azza wa jal).
May Allah (swt) reward you all for seeking His pleasure alone.
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