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Madinat al-Muslimeen Islamic Message Board

wedding rings
tree
08/17/00 at 05:17:20
Asalaamu alaikum I have a friend who's getting married soon (insha'allah) and she wants something engraved in Arabic on the inside of the rings.   So I'm asking you, oh friends of this city, do you have any ideas/suggestions of something nice and simple which can be used.  It has to be something meaningful as well and not something like "i love you" or anything else that cheesy :) I look forward to reading some replies (insha'allah)! salaam tree

Re: wedding rings
Hedaya
08/17/00 at 07:31:08
i'd suggest her husband's name :) what ya think ??

Re: wedding rings
se7en
08/17/00 at 13:29:21
as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatAllah, How about something about qurutul ayn, your spouse being the coolness of your eyes?

Re: wedding rings
Saleema
08/17/00 at 18:35:32
Assalamoalykum, I like Se7en's idea!

Re: wedding rings
Kathy
08/17/00 at 21:29:49
Islam Questions and Answers #6276 Differences between Muslim and non-Muslim weddings This question is regarding Muslim weddings. I have recently embraced Islam. Previously I was Christian. I am curious to know how the muslim and christian wedding ceremony and celebration differ? Does the bride wear white? Does the couple exchange rings? Is dancing allowed? Please let me know as soon as you are able. I have not been able to find this information in any books, or at this site. Thank you! Praise be to Allaah. There are many differences between Muslim and non-Muslim weddings, such as: the condition that the woman must have a wali or guardian to marry her off, the condition that there be witnesses and that the marriage be announced, that the woman cannot be a mahram (close blood relative) of the man, and that the wedding does not have to take place in a mosque. The groom can wear any kind of clothing that has been permitted by Allaah, and it does not have to be any specific colour. It is not permitted for the couple to exchange rings, because this is an innovation that has been newly invented in the religion, and is even worse if the man wears a gold ring because gold is forbidden for men in Islam. It is mustahabb (recommended) for women in particular to sing at weddings and to use the daff (hand-drum), but not any other kind of musical instruments. It is not permissible for men and women to mix, at weddings or at any other time, or for the groom to sit with his bride in front of the women. If the women are alone and no men can see them, it is permissible for them to dance, so long as this will not cause undue provocation of desires. And Allaah knows best.

Re: wedding rings
jannah
08/17/00 at 23:53:33
assalaam alaikum, perhaps this means the couple shouldn't have a cermonial type thing where they exchange rings at their wedding, but i haven't read anything where a gift from the husband to the wife or vice versa excludes rings [quote] It is not permitted for the couple to exchange rings, because this is an innovation that has been newly invented in the religion And Allaah knows best. [/quote]

Re: wedding rings
tree
08/18/00 at 06:48:55
Asalaamu alaikum Just to clarify about the wedding rings...there's not going to be a ceremony where the rings are exchanged. In fact, I'm not sure if they're even going to be given on the day of the nikah, because I don't know if they'll be made in time. I think the rings are being given mainly as a gift, but also as a symbol of marriage because in this country people do look at your fingers to determine availability, so to speak, so I think it;s particularly important for the woman to be able to be seen as being married and therefore not available for..well, anything! ??? Maybe some of you won't agree completely, but i don't really want to get into that because I was just asked to think of something that could be used as an inscription.  So please, keep your ideas coming! :) As for the ones already mentioned...I'll pass them on and see what my friend says.  Someone else sent me a message suggesting "on this day we complete half our deen" followed by the date, which I thought was quite nice.  We just have to get a translation into Arabic now!! tree

Re: wedding rings
Saleema
08/18/00 at 22:10:13
Assalamoalykum, People usually get angry with me when I say that I don't agree with a scholar on a certain issue. But i will take the risk of being lectured and will say that I don't agree with rings being an innovation. What does a ring have anything to do with Islam? Its just a ring. Ring exchange wasn't a cultural practice in Arabia. As long as a couple don't slip the rings on each others fingers in front of everyone it is ok. Women like jewlry. And if her husband wants to give her some and she wants some, what's the problem with that? Wassalam

Re: wedding rings
Kathy
08/18/00 at 22:23:25
WEARING OF ENGAGEMENT AND WEDDING RINGS (Edited) "Whoever imitates certain people becomes of them." (Abu Dawud). ...Hadith shows the decline of Muslims by imitating the Jews and Christians. The second Hadith establishes the fact that if they do so (i.e. imitating the Jews and the Christians) they will not be considered Muslim, they become among those they imitate. So whoever imitates them in any particular quality is like them in that quality until he gives it up and repents. It is important to note that we are not discussing the wearing of rings in general, but only as it applies to this specific question. It was narrated that the Prophet (SAW) had a ring engraved with "Mohammad Rasoolullah" (Mohammad, the Messenger of Allah). He used this ring to seal letters, and he wore the ring on the little finger of his left hand (Muslim). So it is permissible for men to wear silver rings and for women to wear silver and gold rings, but with the condition that it does not resemble a wedding ring nor is it worn in conjunction with any ceremony such as the one previously discussed. I ask Allah (SWT) to bestow on all of us strong Iman that will lead us to follow the Sunnah of our Prophet (SAW) and love our deen. I also ask Allah (SWT) to protect us from introducing any bid’ah into the deen, imitating the kuffar and disobeying Him.  Allah (SWT) knows best.  -Dr. Bassam A. Faraj -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Information taken from Al Jumuah Magazine Volume 9, Issue 9, Ramadhan 1418H, Page 27

Re: wedding rings
Arsalan
08/19/00 at 01:36:54
Assalamu alaikum, [quote]Women like jewlry. And if her husband wants to give her some and she wants some, what's the problem with that?[/quote] What if it's the other way around? - if the woman gives a ring to the man.  Men don't like jewelry, nor do they want it!  Isn't it just done for tradition??  Whose tradition is it?? Just brainstorming here, after reading Kathy's latest post!  I don't know the answer.

Re: wedding rings
Saleema
08/19/00 at 18:36:40
Assalamaolykum, If men don't like rings, then they don't have to wear them! Simple as that! The article from the Juammah maganzine still fails to convince me. I believe in the ahadith but this is not the type of innovation that they are talking about. The Western dress is an innovation of the Christians, why do we wear those? Oh no! Now all of us are kuffars becuase we are immitating them. Oh my gosh, don't tell me! Do the Muslims drive cars? It was invented by a Christian! Tsk. Tsk. The Muslims of today. We should be riding on Camels and horses. Wassalam The Confusion of the Scholars by Yahiya Emerick Have you ever been confronted with such stupidity that you were speechless? It happens all the time and in all spheres of life. The person driving ahead of you can't make up their mind whether to turn left, right, stop, go or travel ahead. The teenager is wearing a full "uniform" of baggy pants, shaved head, ear-ring and gold chains and exclaims he's being "unique." Or my favorite example is that of a man at an auto auction who yelled out "three hundred" when the auctioneer just lowered the price to fifty. Stupidity is sometimes an art form and many people spend a lifetime perfecting it. Usually, the strange actions and behavior of others have little immediate impact on our lives. It often takes a long time for the stupid actions of some to build up to a point where the rest of us suffer. Take for instance the problem of the United Nations. Two-faced people will stand up and tell us that it's the forum for the world and that it's committed to world peace, conflict resolution, justice, etc... But after almost fifty years of bungling, this front for Western, secular domination has prolonged more wars than it solved. The UN's budget is riddled with corruption and inefficiency and UN headed military missions come with more feebleness, bad action and/or inaction than anything else. (Think Bosnia, Somalia, Korea, Rwanda, etc...) Twenty years ago it didn't matter as the two superpowers kept the world on a tight leash. But now that one superpower is gone, the UN's stupidity and confusion is unable to keep the last superpower in check, let alone tin-pot dictators. The prolonged weakness now makes the world more dangerous. What about Muslims? Are there any incredibly stupid actions which have built up to a dangerous level. Of course! Of the many to choose from, which one am I going to pick on today? Yep, you guessed it. I'm going to point out how some (not all) "scholars" have steered us wrong and taken us away from the path of Islam. You often hear the terms, Shaykh, Scholar, 'Alim, 'Ulema, Maulana, Mullah, Allamah, Imam, etc... There are so many people with these titles in front of their names that it's dizzying. You know how so many Muslims are into the whole " Doctor" thing? Seeking status by having everyone call them Doctor? Well, the whole scholar thing is there too and it's much older than the Western oriented " Doctor" worship. (Sometimes you see people writing their names as " Dr. Shaykh whatever." Now that's funny. Here's the problem I see. When I first became a Muslim, I read so many books that extolled the wondrous virtues of the Islamic system. That is the system that I love. And one of the things that was mentioned over and over was that there was no clergy in Islam. No "Holy" men or intermediaries between Allah and people. Then I was introduced into the whole culture of "Scholars." That's where my alarm bells started to ring. Of course, I have nothing against a person acquiring a lot of knowledge, whether it's for Islamic learning or worldly benefit. I have nothing against the concept of the scholar, the doctor, the engineer, etc... I do have a problem if some people use those terms as a cover for their arrogance and mistakes and then it affects me in a negative way, either directly or indirectly. For example, as you well know, there are many competing groups of Muslims today in the ideological wars. There are the Saudi-funded Salafies, the Iranian funded Mullahs, the Egyptian/Syrian Brotherhood groups, the Tablighi Jamaati people, the mysterious Hizb at Tahreer, the Jamati Islami groups, the African American Muslim groups, the secularist Indo-Pak groups and about twenty others. Each group has its own scholars who "prove" to the faithful that the other groups are inferior. These same "scholars" often issue "Fatwas" or religious verdicts about items of concern for individual members and life goes on in the happy dreamland of exclusive truth. These groups often issue contradictory Fatwas and rarely ever work together on anything. How many of you have been to a gathering of one of these or other groups where the "big scholar" is treated like a celebrity? Well-wishers and sycophants fawning all over him. (It's always a "Him." What's the average, concerned Muslim suppossed to think when the "scholars" are often so full of pride and arrogance that they are repulsive? The heirarchy involved in the "scholar" system in amazing! The big Maulanas are usually the fattest. The medium Maulanas have shorter beards and smaller bellies, while the Maulana wanna-bees are thin and stand off in the fringes of the great procession. (Don't get angry at me for pointing out what everyone knows.) So where does the stupidness come in? There are several areas to look at and the first is on the issue of who is a "Scholar" or "Shaykh?" Allah is very harsh against the Jews and the Christians for considering their priests and rabbis as people who could make religious judgments without consulting Allah's revelations. The priests made the eating of pork allowed for Christians, with no authority from Allah or from Prophet Jesus, while the rabbis made laws such as a woman could not be in the house during her period and that milk and meat could not be eaten together. In this respect, the people "worshipped" their leaders besides Allah. Sadly, this is exactly what Muslims have done for the last thousand years. In the early days of Islam, no one went around with austentatious titles, as if they were somehow set apart from the rest of the people. Everyone was usually addressed as brother or sister. No one earned overly glorified titles, either, just because they studied with a Sahabi. The only real special term that I have ever come across which was frequently used by the Prophet to describe others is 'Alim (learned person). And this term was never used in the sense of a "priest" or Holy man. It was just that: a person who is learned. In Madina, everyone was "learned" to one extent or another. The trader knew how to practice Islam, the housewife knew how to practice Islam and the traveler knew it too. If someone needed to ask a question about Islam that they didn't know, they would go to a friend or neighbor. For really detailed questions, they might consult someone who was known to be a teacher. But they wouldn't fawn all over the teacher nor would the teacher dress or act in such a way as to set him or herself apart from the rest of the believers. Centuries passed and a funny thing happened. The Islamic world spread in so many different directions and millions of people were becoming Muslims. The common knowledge of Islam was not so common anymore. If a Muslim teacher went to any area where Islamic knowledge was scarce, suddenly, everyone was wanting to be around him. The teacher became special. (Think of Sufi-style Shaykh worship for example.) Fast forward many more centuries. There are millions of Muslims, but few know much about Islam. Teachers have become "holy" men and have such titles as "Shaykh" or "Maulana". They are a special class, or caste, of people who are sought after and revered by people who want to see their "god" in the flesh because the concept of an unseen Creator is to intellectual for most. (Hence, Muslim "Saints!" So what of the world today? Any person who learns a few dozen ahadith and one or two ajza is calling himself a scholar and making pronouncements about Islam to his flock who knows little. I have met people who knew little about Islam calling themselves Imam, or Shaykh or whatever. Who made them Imam? Who promoted them to the role of a guardian of the Deen? Was it their ignorant followers? Was it by virtue of the fact that they attended some madrasa in another culture? Is it because they're rich? Who knows? All I know is that a real scholar doesn't call himself by a title. He doesn't need it. A real knower of Islam realizes he knows so little and is humble. A title makes him feel uncomfortable. That is a real Muslim leader. But what we have mostly is a clergy class. (Think of that hadith about the Day of Judgment where the pretentious scholar is thrown in Hell.) And what do the self-appointed scholars say? The stupidity is amazing! (These are all actual Fatwas One scholar will say that chewing gum does not break the fast. Another says that using a fork is haram. A third says that eating McDonald's meat is okay while a fourth says of it, no way. One scholar says human cloning is halal, while another says it's haram. One local scholar in New York says the Sunnah is not important and that most ahadith are fabricated. One in Egypt says that wife-beating is okay if the wife doesn't make an effort to look pretty while another says that mortgages are allowed under duress. (Have you ever heard the Fatwa that living in America is haram? It's there.) Each one of these scholars backs up their arguements with Qur'an and hadith, in a usually twisted way, and then says anyone who does otherwise is a kafir. The Muslim masses, especially in the West, become very confused. The Blessed Prophet advised us to ask the learned people if a tough question comes up, but we have incredibly un-learned people leading us. I'm sure you are all aware of that hadith where the Prophet said that he doesn't punish a nation until the learned are no more. I'm sure you'll agree that having a lot of "scholars" doesn't preclude learning being gone. The biggest confusion among the scholars that I've seen is the issue of Bida', or innovation in the Deen. The blessed Prophet once remarked that if anyone brings something new into Islam that it would be rejected. On another occassion, he said, referring to Islam, that every innovation was a wrong and that every wrong will be in the fire. So what have some of our self-proclaimed scholars gone and done? They have included ordinary, everyday things in this definition of Bida'. Even though the Prophet was talking about people changing the beliefs and practices of Islam, our "scholars," in their infinte wisdom, have said that any new invention after the time of the Prophet is also an "innovation" in Islam. I'm sorry, I have no clue how a new type of saddle, weapon, hairbrush, toothpick or shovel can possibly be called an innovation in the Deen. They have no relation to the Deen. Everyday items for common use are just that, ordinary aspects of life. Of course, these "scholars" apply this rule selectively. They will take a plane when they go to Hajj, instead of riding a horse. They'll use a microphone instead of shouting and they'll print their ideas in books. (Remember, the Blessed Prophet did not use any printed books in his da'wah.) Oh my gosh! Bida'! (Look at page 691 of Reliance of the Traveller and you will read a hadith where the Prophet encourages good innovations. I guess the scholars didn't read that hadith from Sahih Muslim.) If you think I'm exaggerating, then ponder over the things I've written. Have you seen anything like it? Have you seen pride on the faces of those who claim to be scholars? Which brings me to my last point. Many scholars make Islam seem totally distant and unreachable. How many times have I been sitting in a Masjid or lecture hall and saw some scholar expounding on Islam in an overly-technical way? Why do you think that teenagers and twenty-something Muslims run away from the Masjid? The scholars use too much Arabic terminology and don't explain things in a digestible way. If it's Sunnah to speak to people according to their level, why do our self-appointed leaders speak as if they're addressing a gathering of scholars all the time? Don't get mad at me. Don't write angry letters about me. I'm telling you the truth. Listen, I understand the Arabic terminology. I understand even the most difficult concepts. Perhaps you do also. But the average Muslim has no clue what Taddabur is or what derivative verbs are or what Tassawaf is or what Usuli Fiqh is. We have ninety percent of our "next generation" one step away from kufr and these "scholars" give lectures that few of the youth, teenagers, converts or average Muslims can understand. Of course, the older, immigrant Muslims may understand some of the speech or du'at because they grew up in a Muslim country and heard of some of the concepts. But Islamic knowledge is cut off in the generation raised in the West. Don't the "scholars" of Islam realize this? They are acting like they are teaching in Medina when in fact they are in pre-Islamic Mecca. (Do you know how many da'wah workers mess up their da'wah by using excessive Arabic grammar and concepts that American people don't understand?) I've often lamented that in our Masajid and centers, in many cases, the Imams and "Scholars" have no clue about the needs of their community. They often can't counsel, teach effectively or even show compassion and understanding. I'm just glad that there are a few good scholars around. I just wish there were more, that they could be in the majority. Then we wouldn't have the confusion and stupidity on such a high level making it difficult for all of us. I know of one Masjid where the Imam carries a gun and has pulled it on Muslims in the Masjid! (How did he get to be an Imam?) Have you ever heard of a Doctor of Divinity? It's a special degree that Christians usually get before they can become priests or ministers. The candidate must not only study the beliefs and teachings of his or her religion, they must also study: marriage counseling, youth psychology, administration, public speaking, philosophy, comparative religion, management, writing, literature, etc... Why doesn't the board of directors of Masjid X,Y or Z require this from their Imams and resident "scholars"? In many communities I've been in, the Imam, who is almost always a hafiz, is the least respected because all he knows is the Qur'an, he usually has no practical knowledge of anything else whatsoever. The Islamic movement needs real, well-rounded and versatile leaders. We need humble people who don't hide behind titles and enter exclusive "scholar's" clubs. I don't want anyone to think I'm speaking out against the concept of scholars. I'm not. I repeat, I'm not. I'm speaking out against the laziness in the Ummah which has let our standards for what a scholar should be drop so low that anyone, regardless of intelligence can claim to be a scholar, and then have people follow him. (Do you know how many "Imams" I've seen carrying sticks to beat their students of Qur'an?) I'm also speaking out against those who have acquired such a high level of knowledge but then don't know how to relate it to the people. (Do you know how many big scholars I've seen drunk on their own knowledge while the people around them are lost?) Some brothers from Saudi Arabia once told me an interesting thing. They said that in thier country, everyone tries to get their children on the doctor track in the schools. If the child isn't smart enough to do that, then they try to direct them to the engineer track. But if they fail in that also, then they send them to the religious schools to be an Imam, and that is the lowest level of respect in society. May Allah help us to reclaim the middle ground and bring the knowledge of the real scholars to the masses who are in desperate need of it. Ameen.

Re: wedding rings
Kathy
08/19/00 at 21:27:29
As salaamu alaykum. The last post made me remember my early days when I first brcame Muslim. I argued about polygany, covering, dating, and a mirad of many other ideas regarding the Islamic standpoint. My limited understanding was a veil over the true answers that Islam provide. I wonder too about the wedding ring issue. It is very true that in our country a negative first impression stigma is applied if a women is seen with a bunch of kids and no ring on her finger. For this reason I wear one. May Allah swt forgive me if I am copying "them." The scarf must give these people some kind of a first impression, but my deen has evolved so that doesn't bother me anymore. Perhaps my deen needs a little more work... like in the earlier days!

Salaam Tree - wedding rings-
Safiya
08/20/00 at 01:27:28
salam Alaykum sister i have an idea for what to write on the wedding ring how about : My spouse in paradise   give my salaam to your friend and may Allah bless thier marriage and bless them with paradise, ameen. salam

Re: wedding rings
Moe
08/20/00 at 23:02:28
its a custom in many socities to give rings!

Re: wedding rings
Saleema
08/21/00 at 21:02:33
Assalamoalykum, I think for once, me and brother Moe have agreed to something. Wassalam

Re: wedding rings
Moe
08/22/00 at 01:21:23
i agree sister Saleema

Re: wedding rings
tree
08/22/00 at 05:15:42
Asalaamu alaikum So, does anyone have any more suggestions?!?! :o tree

Re: wedding rings
Saleema
08/22/00 at 11:11:53
Assalamoalykum, Well, how about something like the spouse is like a garment for each other? you can read the aya in the Quran and can take whatever you want from there. I can't remember what it says exactly or where it is Wassalam

Re: wedding rings
jawadio
08/22/00 at 22:35:26
salam... about the legality of wedding rings (in Shari`ah) I was told by my teachers that it is mubah (permissible) and that there is nothing that forbids it. as for a good inscription, here's a story that goes with this one. (I read this a while ago, I can't remember where, some Arab tale or the like, so there's a lot of "filler" from me in this tale; if anyone knows the real deal, please feel free to send it my way) There was a prince who was to become king, and part of his ascending the throne was his getting a ring that would have an inscription on it that would always give him sound council, no matter whether he was facing a difficult trial from Allah, or His pleasure.  So he assembled all of the wise sages of his day to his court and asked them come up with a single phrase by which he can make it through the trials of his new position and life in general.   All of them came up with intricate ideas, and he dismissed them.  None of them were satisfactory.   As it would have it, a bedouin came to his court asking for some favor of the king for his tribe.  The king - knowing that the bedouins still preserved the Arabic language, and lived a lifestyle closer to that of the Prophets then he and his sages did - asked the bedouin for some line of naseeha to put on his ring. The bedouin thought for a moment and told the king, "The problem with people is that their state changes depending on what Allah gives them.  When He is merciful to them, they forget His mercy, and when He is trying them, they complain of His trials, and accuse Him of being too hard on them - and He is the Merciful!  D idn't Allah Himself say this about man?  "As for man, whenever his Lord trieth him by honouring him, and is gracious unto him, he saith: My Lord honoureth me.  But whenever He trieth him by straitening his means of life, he saith: My Lord despiseth me. (Surat al-Fajr)"  In both cases, man is ingrateful to Allah because they think that their present situation is Allah's final decree upon them.   "In your moment of joy, you become deluded into thinking that Allah has favored you and that you have nothing more to worry about.  In your moments of trials, you delude yourself by thinking that your trial will last forever, and you despair of Allahs mercy, which is a big enough sin in and of itself!   "So to avoid both of these situations, you should remember at all times, that THIS TOO WILL PASS. Wa salam, Jawad.
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